Auto belay failure rate reddit. She threatens to sue and they settle out of court (gym paid for nearly all of it) bc a lawsuit could have been more costly, caused the gym to close temporarily, and caused their insurance rates to go up. Any gym owners or anyone who owns any TRUBLUE auto belays, they have/are just about to, issue a recall notice. It will also feel more comfortable/less awkward when you fall on the belay loop vs the tie in points. Hi all, I am currently in Perth and would like to climb a bit to stay in shape. Sep 21, 2023 · In 1994, he also served as one of the original board members for the Climbing Wall Association. It’s like anything with climbing on ropes, you just need to learn to trust the gear. During my first climbing lesson, the instructor explained how the auto belays work. Reply reply Think_Current101 • This held true for the lack of communication observed between belay partners, the lower-than-expected rates of double-checking safety knots while climbing with a partner, and climbers on auto belay failing to double-check their connection to the carabiner. The Harbor Freight auto belay is a little cheaper. At my gym we tie into belay, so the belay test consisted of demonstrating tying into the harness, explaining how we knew everything is secure and then the belayer clipping in properly. If OP is supportive of auto-locking belay devices but posted this anyway as “dissatisfying”, then they’re just being disingenuous, and trying to stoke controversy. I'm visiting London so I've no belay partner and was looking for some auto-belay action. 237 votes, 198 comments. 2K votes, 928 comments. TRUBLUE Auto Belay - Beware. That's what my belay device did the whole time I knew it before the fatal fall and I assume that had something to do with its failure (edited to reframe in answer of original post! thanks for giving me this space to air my grievances!) Because if this was a maintenance failure they're liable. If they fail at either of those things, yes you could be injured or die. Like a white pillow sheltering me from the outside world. I'm sure the instructions that come with it include all sorts of CYA lawyer stuff, however. Oct 22, 2021 · Botched clipping is a well-known pitfall of auto-belay systems. freeloader is like 20,000ft that's a lot of ladders and hence a lot of bad luck! i think am elevator would be best. ie. I hope this post isn't too redundant. Jul 15, 2021 · I use auto-belays almost every time I’m in the gym, so this is a little weird and frustrating. Jul 21, 2016 · Enter the auto-belay, a specialized device common in many gyms that takes the place of a real live person on the other end of the rope. I took a leap and decided to accept. I had a hard time finding any information out there from actual contractors who work with them and their experiences when I was deciding to accept a contract with them. It's missing a key safety feature. Hey Tundrawolf_ This is from wikipedia: [. The data shows that these accidents occur among both new and experienced climbers. For very unfortunate reason I will have to start climbing alone now. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. Mike is our patron, Honnold our saviour The ATC Guide (specifically the guide), when set up correctly, is an "auto-blocking" (not to be confused with "auto-locking") belay device for belaying a second. At first reluctant to host auto belays in his gyms, he compromised with a stringent and required belay check that all members who wish to use the auto belays must undergo. Why do so many people not like auto-belays in gyms? Personally find them super convenient for training. You can do repeats if no one's waiting. I always went with someone who can belay me before. That they rely on the principles of induction and magnetism, and that the break system is powered entirely by your weight due to gravity. Both Sportrocks have auto belays. Bend Rock Gym needs to provide information about why this happened, including the specific mode of failure. While they offer many benefits, there are also drawbacks to using an auto belay. Must have assumed magic would catch them?? Feb 22, 2020 · Understanding auto belays can be a little unerving if you've not used one before, we cover how they work and how to use them safely. 76 votes, 74 comments. auto belay ?? New to climbing and the public wall has multiple autobelay systems. This is a reminder that you must stay focused on safety at all times while climbing, especially by yourself. I tried quite a few times to conquer my fear but I just couldn Posted by u/PatPikachu - 50 votes and 1 comment Indoor top-rope auto-belay in Kyoto, Osaka, Kobe? Hi all I'll be visiting Kyoto, Osaka, and Kobe during the summer, and I'd like to visit a few indoor gyms to work off all the food I'll be eating. e. The home of Climbing on reddit. Dec 2, 2021 · How Does Lead Auto-Belay Work? Skeptics, perform your finger warmup, navigate to whichever snide Reddit climbing forum you frequent, and get ready to type. I much prefer the ones at Alexandria as Sterling pumps my arms out too fast, but they can be good in a pinch. Since I'm by myself, I was wondering other than bouldering, where can I go that has a few auto-belays for me. Alexandria has three normal ones and a small beginner one. She's okay now but our gym is closed all year because of it. Jun 21, 2021 · A woman has died following an auto-belay accident at Ascent Studio Climbing & Fitness, in Fort Collins, Colorado, on Saturday, June 12. I know about the bouldering spots around but find top rope more fun. The carabiner is incorrectly loaded (triaxially) when you put it through the tie in points, so use the belay loop. At my university gym, one of the wall employees was getting some late night crag action on an autobelay. We came to the decision to remove auto belays. I searched the forum for similar posts and the FAQ actually asserts the too strong to fail idea. The centre's got a decent number of lines, but most of them are in one alarmingly-tiny space. I doubt the cable failure happened in the first few feet of rope near the climber. Sterling has two, although both are on fairly negative walls. Reports and hearsay of climbers clipping their harnesses incorrectly, failing to properly secure the carabiner, or forgetting Oct 25, 2021 · While autobelays are safe if used properly, and current models have near nonexistent rates of failure, many gyms don’t require autobelay users to pass top rope belay tests, and/or have low (or nonexistent) age minimums for autobelay use. You unclip it, and tie it to yourself If you don't clip it to yourself, it reels to the top, you look like an idiot. What? No. ]though Petzl recommends the device for use in both applications. The intensity on the auto belay at the end of your session is too low to stimulate strength gains, but it's also enough to hurt your rate of recovery i. No mention of the brand of device though. Old gym in MA had tons of auto belays. I have been climbing for about 2 years, but only bouldering and top roping indoors, and I have only ever used a typical ATC belay device, which I am very comfortable with. To be fair to them, I only used the auto belay because it was my first time. Hi all, So I have read through a bunch of other threads on here about choosing a belay device, but I haven't found one that answers all of my questions yet. The reason for this is because when the auto belay is connected from the top of the wall to the ground, it is under a heavier load on it's coil than if the auto was left "up" (with the lanyard just barely hanging out of the auto belay canister). The furthest you can be pulled up is the first draw. Yep, that would be rude. In the comments I see a lot of people saying that they prefer non-breaking belay devices, which seems pretty obvious, but other people say that auto-breaking devices are safer, because they will usually break even if the belayer doesn't keep their hand on the brake. What gear is needed to use the autobelay system? Is purchasing used equipment a poor choice? 121 votes, 13 comments. Then, when you reach the top (or fall), it gently lowers you to the ground. Local gym in my area uses these auto belay systems, in the past two weeks they've failed 3 times. I use them as warm ups for hard bouldering for strength workouts, when I can’t find a partner or waiting for a late partner to show up, never had an issue and they always seem pretty safe to me. No one taught me anything except how to put on a harness and connect to the auto belay. I know that there are some The auto-belay system has the cord clipped at an anchor point on the ground. I’m sure it takes some getting used to but I felt like the rope was pulling/holding me up some, so it wasn’t as good of a work out as bouldering. Most of these are falls from the top of the wall due to failure to clip in, making them catastrophic. Are there any climbing gyms you can recommend that have auto belays?… Auto belay for climbing newbs? Very sporadic climber here. Understanding why climbers make mistakes can reduce injuries widely. NB: If you get to the top of the belay and you have to yank the webbing to make it retract fully, tell the staff. Overall no helmet was a significant portion of all climbing accidents, nearly as much as rap errors. I asked why there were only three auto belays there today instead of the usual five and he said that two of them failed inspection and have been getting fixed for the past few weeks and may not be back for a while longer. Possible solutions would be to service the auto belay so the recoil moves with the climber, or to change the carabiner type to one that can not open against someone’s body. However, lately I've been doing quick sessions alone in my spare time using the auto belay system. The Belay loop is doubled nylon webbing to avoid it being a single point of failure. So I imagine there would be some light rubbing on that section. Have the manufacturer's inspected the devices to determine whether it was a mechanical failure or operator error? Given the state of climbing gyms, I would assume the belayer or gym is trying to save face for neglecting to belay or maintain their equipment properly, respectively. The issue is I just can’t trust it and can’t let it go. Fort Collins Police Services spokesperson Brandon Barnes told The Coloradoan that the climber fell from about 40 feet up in the auto-belay area. You don't need to worry about a single point of failure with the belay loop. And yes we are scared of falling. The mom claims the auto belay failed, which is preposterous bc he wasn't even connected to it. truethe problem with ladders is that rude people can tip them over. I would suggest getting an auto-locking belay device. The number of auto belay accidents are increasing. Morning Mountain Hikei may be obsessed with fog. It’s a rope route, auto belay. there's also the bad luck aspect to consider. Sportrock also has a Facebook group to help find belay partners at either. Jon Lachelt, co-founder and general manager of Ascent Studio Auto belay "TruBlue Speed" auto-belay fixed at the top of an indoor climbing route An auto belay (or autobelay) is a mechanical device for belaying in indoor climbing walls, in both training and competition climbing formats. Alternative to auto-belay devices for at-home climbing wall? Building an outdoor climbing wall. The climbing centre's instagram page reported 3 days ago that it was auto belay failure, and they've removed all auto belays and will never use them again in that centre. 222 votes, 50 comments. I was at the gym the day after the accident, and it was business as usual with all the auto belays in use, except the route where accident happened which I noticed was missing the auto belay. Failure to clip in is WAY more likely than equipment failure in autobelay accidents, at least with modern autobelays (the original versions had some issues but they weren't designed for climbing use and I haven't seen one in use in a gym in a decade). [1] The claim against usage for lead climbing is that since the device auto-locks, the belayer is required to hold the device open while feeding rope to the leader. Are there any cheaper alternatives to an auto-belay which would let me practice climb when I'm by myself? Those things cost thousands. This is the whole reason for the belay loop. In trad nearly half of all accidents were gear failure. Last night I did We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Jan 15, 2024 · Ashley Routson discusses the pros, cons, and some suggestions for the use of auto-belays in indoor climbing gyms. Using a throwaway acct to avoid alarming people I know. As somebody who uses auto belay a LOT, this was a bit worrying to hear but I‘m wondering if this It is an autobelay failure because the autobelay doesn't have a partner check like a traditional belay system. I’m not sure, just how my gym sets things up I guess. I usually get those because my dog chews through the webbing eventually. One possibility might be to make auto belay set ups top entry systems. However, I am looking to get I'm very paranoid about belaying accidents, and would like to find a device that can be used as a backup for a belay, to lock on the rope if the primary belay device fails and sets the rope free (whether due to user error, or being knocked unconscious due to rockfall etc. I also kept getting smacked in the face and chest with the carabiner (is that what it’s called?). Posted by u/usbspeaker - 1 vote and no comments On alpine routes where not being able to see or hear your partner is super common, belaying with an auto-locking device dramatically ups the safety margins and is well worth the extra ~7oz to bring a single grigri. ). There isn't anything on the market that remotely comes close to the ease of use for lead belay. I never feel safe on auto belay, but usually when they fail you get stuck rather than deck. you start at the top "fall" to the floor and then start to climb, the error rate would be lower. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. The whole point of the auto belay is to walk up, clip yourself in (easy to do, it’s only two clips) and get going. However, that kind of wear would easily be spotted during regular operations. Just wondering what everyone else’s Yeah, every climbing gym in the world uses auto belays these days and there have been zero issues. Oct 25, 2021 · In reply to Wire Shark: The 'SafeWork' mentioned in the article is a government department in NSW investigating the incident. 44 votes, 55 comments. In fact has one ever had a catastrophic failure? I have a lot of respect for Andrew, but this is a bit of a strange attitude to propagate. Edit: There's actually an auto belay device on the routes to the right, where you can see the ropes touching the wall. The grigri is the most common, but also the most expensive option. I tried to come up with a better analogy, but the best I could do is: It's like riding a tandem bike by yourself and only having control of the front brakes. The belay loop is the best example. There is no case where you can not not be tied in. r/fujix • 1. 97K subscribers in the ClimbingCircleJerk community. Scary stuff I’m wondering if practicing on an auto belay (since I have no climbing friends) to build my endurance/stamina and physical strength would be helpful to transition to bouldering? The idea is to have the psychological safety of the auto belay while I get into somewhat decent shape to start bouldering by myself. Surprised to see anchor failure be the most common top rope cause of accidents, with belay failure way lower down. Mar 3, 2025 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. Reply reply 123_666 • there have been zero issues I think it’s natural to fear auto belays, especially as they feel so alien when you’ve been used to having a partner belay you. Jan 5, 2018 · Secondly, an auto belay must be capable of enduring hundreds of climb per day in a high throughput facilities. I'm only auto Belay certified in the gym but I wanted to try climbing outdoors! 1 0 Share Add a Comment Anyone have experience or resources on if auto belay is safe while pregnant with a full body harness? Compared to top rope I was thinking it has a bit more of a fall before the device starts to lowers you down. Auto belay machines will fail a heck of a lot less than your doofus buddy will. I've seen fall arrest devices for roofers etc. 1. Authorities have not yet released the woman’s name. but I don't know if they're intended for regular usage. I’m not interested in bouldering much so auto belay is my only option. Based on both rumor and inference from the messaging, this looks like a fixed-gear failure, and no part of that system should fail catastrophically if maintained correctly. The ATC-Pilot is hands-down the best belay device I've ever used. 310 votes, 227 comments. See a fair amount of anti auto-belay comments. If you do clip it to your belay loop, you climb, it reels up, you come back down safely. I wasn’t a huge fan. As with most auto-belay accidents, user failure is the major cause. You are far more likely to die driving your car anywhere than you are to die from the auto belay. The other SICG in Villawood has removed their auto belays in response. A newbie here. Sep 27, 2023 · Vertical World and C3 Manufacturing recently agreed to pay a climber $6 million, one of the largest settlements in the climbing gym industry’s history, following an auto belay accident. The person likely had not used one before. They rate is on the V scale. Like you, they also had a reason for picking the auto-belay over the available top rope climbs, and your reason is no more important than whatever theirs is. Let us explore some of the pros and cons of auto belays. I trust auto belays more than any human belayer. also handicapped-accessible stairs for people who want a more scenic hike up the mountain. What devices were used and what gyms did these accidents occur in? I started working as a contractor for Belay doing virtual assistant work in early February 2023. Apr 24, 2023 · The auto belay provides a controlled descent using magnets, centrifugal force, or hydraulics as a braking mechanism. Hit the the top of the wall at 30 ft. 16K subscribers in the blackandwhite community. Nov 21, 2022 · The Climbing Wall Association releases a report with research Jon Heshka on why indoor climbers make mistakes in indoor climbing gyms. , trusted the auto belay and decked. Word on the street is an auto belay failure. So that's how it pulls in slack. They also have a large bouldering rock which is fun and has a lot of variety We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Do any of the gyms within an hour of sac have auto belay or am I forced to talk to strangers?. A magnetic braking auto belay endures cycle after cycle without deterioration of braking performance, while friction devices will inevitably heat up and require the replacing of the brake pads. Reply reply ppablo787 • I feel like a lot of the issue is from people learning to belay on auto locking devices, so there's much less pressure to get it right the first time, everytime. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. I'm new to climbing, been going to a gym for 6 months and love it. What this means is that if your second/follower falls, the rope will bind in the device on its own. Local WA gyms remove auto belays due to what I can only believe is fear from litigation due to climbers misuse Here’s my problem, that situation is annoying at best and seems very unsafe at worst. Otherwise, go up/down once and hand off to the next person and wait your turn. Set up above a particular route, the auto-belay automatically takes in slack as you move up. I will actually verbally say these to myself to make sure I’m checking each thing especially on an auto belay where you don’t have anyone to double check for you. Since I know that gravity and magnetism are fundamental forces of nature that simply don't fail, it really helped me with my confidence to trust in the device. Ironically, Johnston has been pushing for better auto belay practices for years. I had a hair-raising moment when I realised that the chap on the line behind mine had TL;DR: Why are some things considered too strong to fail? My apologies if this is sort of dumb. Typically, using the auto belay requires a really quick 2-5 minute orientation and demonstration and then you’re set to go. you'll now need to take more time off to recover from your session than if you'd been sensible and finished earlier. even if the cause of the accident was failure to use the auto-belay altogether. I have never worked at a gym before so I’m not sure how common this is. There's also the Mammut Smart, and the Elderid Mega Jul. One caused a ground fall from ~25 feet up, one instance was caught and after a couple tugs the system caught and the climber was able to be safely lowered and the third instance resulted in a down climb to safety. The belayer's whole job is to manage slack and ensure that the belay locker is not getting unscrewed or cross-loaded. Oct 12, 2020 · Wondering what auto belays are? In this post, we detail what are the main types of auto belays, how they work and how to use them properly. Absolutely. Feb 8, 2024 · An informal post on a climbing forum titled "Auto-belay Accident" is the most perfect, concise way to tell a reader, they are going to read about a climbing accident that occurred on an auto-belay. Most of these auto-belay accidents have been people who don't tie in or don't tie in correctly. She broke both femurs and her hips. Reply reply more replyMore replies [deleted] • Comment deleted by user Reply reply more replies more replies More repliesMore repliesMore replies fascal • as before him, the best free soloists like Bachar, Gardner, Bishop, and 416 votes, 242 comments. Had my first trip to The Castle in Hackney yesterday and luckily got there before 5 so I got some time in before it gets busy. I have always wondered why certain pieces of climbing gear are considered too strong to fail, and consequently don't require redundancy. Toronto climbing academy in East York has 10 auto belays with a few climbs each making 22 auto belay climbs in total. The device enables a climber to ascend indoor routes on a top rope but without the need for a human belaying partner. A common mistake while belaying a lead climber is to hold open the device the entire time, thus defeating the auto-locking Auto Belay Accident—Climber Fell 45 ft due to tiny distractions leading to one big mistake in the gym 541 votes, 190 comments. . I have only gone bouldering and today I tried auto belay for the first time. Both of those devices have a similar belay motion to an ATC, and they are cheaper than a grigri. I usually top rope with an experienced friend. I really really love climbing now and it brings me so much joy. gbn zhlhvqee osmp emk wpx prlgb kty gxte arm nakzt